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Tuesday at Opryland

C. Trent Rosecrans Cincinnati.com Blog 12/4/07

Tuesday at Opryland

NASHVILLE -- Greetings and good morning.

Well, to get here, just from my hotel and around and over to the press room took 950 steps. Yep, today I have a pedometer to see exactly how much walking I do at a typical day at the winter meetings. At step 970 Yahoo!'s Tim Brown suggested that I log which steps important things are done. So, that's what we'll do today. His colleague Jeff Passan predicted 8 miles today. I think that's just because he's a big Eminem fan. Or something. We'll see. Should be interesting. Just stepped in, not too much interesting going on. Just the stenographer is getting nervous, because when I get stuck for a word, I look up out into the distance and she just happens to be in the line of sight and so she's justifiably weary of me because I have a weird look on my face and am apparently looking at her. The room isn't too full yet. The Cubs sent Will Ohman to Braves. The Red Sox are apparently close to getting Johan Santana and the Royals are signing former Red Jose Guillen.

12:04 p.m. EST: We're at 2,536 steps already today. I think Jeff's 8 miles may be low, considering I'm at 1.4 miles already and I feel like I've barely started. At 1,784, a reporter came up to me and said, "I really like the idea of trading Hamilton." I think in the right situation, it could be good. At 1,803 I spot Cal Ripken before heading back to the media room. Stop at 2,409 and talk briefly to Newsday's Kat O'Brien, who covers the Yankees. She looks beat already. "I'm going on very little sleep," Kat says. Yankees beat can be ridiculous. You can see on her blog that she finally stopped looking for Santana news at 2:30 a.m. and was probably up pretty darn early.Sitting here blogging, Dick Williams is at the podium talking about his election yesterday in the Hall of Fame. He just mentioned something, like I alluded to yesterday, that Andre Dawson should be in the Hall. I don't think Dawson will, but he was as good as anyone I ever saw. I did run into the Reds' Dick Williams, who is the director of baseball business operations, and he said he's got plenty of congrats for the Hall of Fame nod. Of course, I said it was better than anyone asking about exposing himself.

The Winter Meetings have really begun, because the World Wide MisLeader in Sports is giving us a Mark Loretta update. You may remember last year the same WWmL reported the Reds had signed Mark Loretta to a 3-year deal. They didn't. Yesterday the Krivdawg asked us what was going on, and I said, "I heard you signed Mark Loretta." He didn't remember the incident, but it did get a chuckle out of Rob Butcher.

12:30 p.m. EST: Just got back from what will be the first of many trips to the bathroom. Step 2,752 took me to the urinal, where I heard more complaining about the hours of the bars at the Opryland Hotel. Aparently after midnight, there is only one bar open at the entire hotel, and they had only two bartenders working on Monday night. That's not real good when you've got this many scribes and baseball people in one place. Walking back and at 2,770 run into John Allen and I ask about a return to Plant City as the Reds spring training home. This always elicits either a laugh or a groan. Jeff Maltsby, the director of Florida operations, comes up after a few minutes and I mention Plant City to him. Let's just say John laughed at the suggestion and Jeff had a different response. In a perfect world, I think the Reds would want to stay in Sarasota -- they realize it's about the best possible location for spring training in Florida, it's just that the facility needs major work.

Whoa. Ken Rosenthal is reporting the Tigers and Marlins are talking about a deal that would sent not only Miguel Cabrera to Detroit, but also Dontrelle Willis. Wow.

2:22 p.m. EST: Well, just got back to lunch. And I'm at 5,387. Went down to the lobby, walked around. Talked to Hal a bit. At step 3,631 (which, incidentally, was the 2-mile mark) Anthony Castrovince, former Reds beat writer for MLB.com asked if he was important enough to get a step number. I told him no. As he, Lancaster and I walked around a bit.At 3,692 was talking to MLB.com Twins beat writer Kelly Theiser and the Boston Globe's Amalie Benjamin when Linda Krivsky saw me and greeted me. Seriously, Linda Krivsky is one of the most outgoing, nicest people you'll ever meet. At 4,192 -- and yes, I noted the significance of the number when I took the step -- we stepped up to get a table for lunch, Castrovince, Lancaster and myself. Just now I got the message about the blog issues. Trust me, it's being talked about. I'm not happy right now, so I'm leaving it to more rational people than myself to discuss it. I spent 251 steps complaining about it. Right now, there are people in the press room as Cal Ripken sits at the front of the room for the Field Turf Awards. Not too many people are paying attention.

3:12 p.m. EST: We're at 7,441 steps now.Heard the worst joke of the day at 5,980 -- one writer had a cup of ice cream and walking by, someone said, 'you can tell your editor you got two scoops today... hahahaha' -- hardy har har har. Passan asked my update, told him and he decided our math was off earlier, but that his 20,000 steps could be accurate. We'll see. I might quite early. I dunno. And with step 6,886, I reached forward to shake the hand of Pete Mackanin. Pete's here looking for a job. This is a giant job fair and Pete's looking for a job. He said there are some things he's working on, but he doesn't want to say anything, because there's still a lot up in the air. I know what he means. We talked about how we're in a pretty similar situation. I asked him about his trip to Europe that he and his bride took after the season. "It was the trip of a lifetime," Mackanin said. "It was amazing -- it would hav ebeen better if I had a job and wasn't worrying about that. "It was enlightening. Don't I look enlightened?" At that, I laughed. And then he added, "I got couth now." Is it any wonder why we scribes ar egonna miss the guy? "I got couth now"? Wow. Just awesome Looks like Trey Hillman is going to have the largest audience of any Royals manager in the history of the Winter Meetings. He's going here at 2:30 local. Right now, JustRays manager Joe Maddon (who is so entertaining, I'm gonna head over there in a second) and Arizona's Bob Melvin are going. After that it's Bud Black and Hillman -- talk about a Royals double dip.

3:41 -- was released at 3, sorry I didn't get it up as soon as it was released, but Joe Nuxhall made the final ballot for the Ford Frick Award. He's joined by Bill King, Joe Morgan, Tom Cheek, Ken Coleman, Dizzy Dean, tony Kubek, Graham McNamee, Dave Niehaus and Dave Van Horne.The fans have certainly made their choice known -- Nuxhall received 82,304 of the 122,550 fan votes at baseball.org -- 67 percent of the votes were for Nuxhall. King received 7,659 votes and Morgan 6,065. Kim Nuxhall released this statement:

“On behalf of dad and the entire Nuxhall family, we wish to express our sincere gratitude to the Cincinnati Reds, radio and TV stations, newspapers and particularly the thousands of fans who took the time to cast their votes for dad. Just being on the ballot is a great honor for dad, and we graciously share this recognition with everyone in Reds country.”

Wow. It's now out of the fans' hands, and hopefully it sends a message to the 20 voters. Who are the voters? From the release:

he winner of the 2008 Frick Award will be announced February 19. Voting will be conducted by a 20-member electorate, comprised of the 14 living Frick Award recipients and six broadcast historians/columnists, including past Frick honorees Marty Brennaman, Jerry Coleman, Gene Elston, Joe Garagiola, Ernie Harwell, Jaime Jarrin, Milo Hamilton, Harry Kalas, 2007 Frick winner Denny Matthews, Felo Ramirez, Vin Scully, Lon Simmons, Bob Uecker and Bob Wolff, and, historians/columnists Bob Costas (NBC), Barry Horn (Dallas Morning News), Stan Isaacs (formerly of NY Newsday), Ted Patterson (historian), Curt Smith (historian) and Larry Stewart (Los Angeles Times).

4:35 p.m EST: We're at the threshold of 10,000 now -- 9,221 as I sit and type this (which is 5.08 miles). Step 8,602 was to the XM booth where the Krivdawg was live on the air giving listeners validation for spending $13 a month on XM. It would be easy to say the rest of the 619 steps were from the Krivdawg sidestepping questions... So I won't. Or something like that.Really, the most enlightening thing he had to say was, "Some people like to talk more than I do." True. Very true. Krivsky was asked if there was a message in the Reds not being mentioned in talks for some of the big-name pitchers like Erik Bedard and Johan Santana and Dontrelle Willis -- "who's to say we haven't (been in talks for those players)." Also, while talking to the Krivdawg, noticed John Smoltz walking around.

5:14 p.m. EST: We're up to 11,007. That's 6.06 miles, apparently.At 1,038 I saw Don Mattingly, so there's that. Still think George Brett was robbed of the 1985 AL MVP, but that's just me. I also talked to Jeff Keppinger's agent for a while -- the same people represent Mark De Rosa, and one of the guys asked me what I thought of De Rosa, and I said I was pretty sure based on what I saw this year that he'd hit .458 for the season, because I'm not sure I saw him make an out.

6:34 p.m. EST: Apparently the Marlins-Tigers deal is done, so Willis is off the market. Good luck to the Marlins trying to get that stadium built or anyone to sit in it.14,602 steps, which is 8.04 miles.

7:22 p.m. EST: People are still in awe of the Marlins-Tigers deal. And of 16,196 steps, or 8.92 miles. Thing is, it's not unusual. I'm sure there are people who've done more than me, I'm just the only one to track it.

7:49 p.m. EST: Dude, seriously, Passan is good. Really good.He looked at me and 16,130. I said, I think you just won both showcases. 16,252 And now it's 16,259 as I took seven steps back to my seat.

From things I'm hearing, the Reds might think more highly of Edwin Encarnacion than everyone else does. Just something to keep in mind. I think Votto's more likely to go than EE, but that's just kinda what I'm hearing. Although, if the right pitcher is involved.... Remember, the Reds have passed on Lincecum before -- there's something there they're not high on.

8:35 p.m. EST: Well, 18,887. Really. 10.41 miles. It is 562 steps from the end of the lobby to my seat in the media room. Nick said I'm having too much fun with this, but, well, it's kinda my style to find something and hold onto it and enjoy it. Kinda like the blog.

9:12 p.m. EST: From one writer to a Florida writer, "Have the canceled the Marlins fans fest yet?" Florida writer: "You mean fan fest?"

11:19 p.m. EST: Well, back from dinner and we're at 21,913 -- 12.08 miles. At 20,220 Nick asked me where I was. Then I walked over and got a coffee -- although it had some weird name, something about a monkey. At this point, I really don't remember. Marc and I sat down to dinner at 20,921. We went to the Italian place and Marc had the first reported good meal of the meetings, which is nice. I did not. Looks like Marc is well on his way to achieving his goal of not leaving the "biodome" of the Opryland until he heads to the airport on Thursday. Ron Blum of the AP just had his room service dinner delivered to teh press room. Yep, that's the excitement of the Winter Meetings.

12:38 a.m. EST: So, from what I'm hearing the Reds, Dodgers, Mets and Mariners are the teams really in the Erik Bedard sweepstakes, but the O's don't feel they must move him. It's going to take three major league-ready prospects or young players -- think Bailey, Votto and someone else. The one rumor I heard was Bailey and Stubbs -- even Reds folks would laugh at that thought. No way that would work. It's going to take Bailey, Votto AND... apparently that third name is going to be big. The Dodgers could be the front-runner, but don't count the Reds out. With Bedard and Cordero additions, they'd certainly be in the hunt in the NL Central, and with Harang and Bedard at the front, not too many teams would want to face them in a playoff series.Oh, and 23,784, which is 13.11 miles, or so says the SportLine pedometer. And I'm not done yet. I could use another Diet Dr Pepper, though.

Former Red pitcher Brian Shackelford (traded to the JustRays in the Cantu deal) is headed to the Dodgers and will get a big league invite to camp.

1:20 a.m. EST: Just filed my notebook. My desk hates me. And they should.

2:07 a.m. EST: So, apparently the last bar stops serving here at 1. I was able to get to the bar, on step 25,152 and say, "whatever's your darkest beer in a bottle, I'll have two." Got Newscastle, which made me happy. Back in the media room, blogging and about to pack up and then head back to my hotel -- the Opryland was full, so I'm staying off campus. Finished at 26,230, but I'll make one more update when I get in bed. So far, it's 14.46 miles.I just set my alarm for 7:25 a.m. EST. Yep, I live the glamorous life.

2:20 a.m. EST: Was headed out the door when got just about there and the Washington Post's Dave Sheinin was on the piano and playing The Replacements' 'Can't Hardly Wait', so I had to pull up a chair. Now it's 'Sister Christian.' Oh, at 26,762. His 'You Give Love a Bad Name' is pretty damn good. Oh and some Outfit by DBT. Great stuff.

3:33 a.m. EST: In my hotel room bed. The final count is 27,396. A total of 15.10 miles. Seriously. Oh, and I'll be awake and back at it in four hours. Oh, the glorious life.

posted by ctrosecrans at 11:18 AM

195 Comments:

at 12/04/2007 11:35 AM Antonio said...

This post has been removed by the author.

at 12/04/2007 11:38 AM Mr. Redlegs said...

I'm trying to think of something to bitch about but since we have a new thread and I don't have to scroll down too far, I'm at a loss. Suggestions?Today could be the fun day at the meetings. Once the first domino falls things could happen fast. Thing is, the Reds simply have to find a pitcher or two. And I don't mean the Casey-for-Williams kind of finding. So, I bring up the question again: With pitching at such a premium, wouldn't Arroyo bring more in return that helps this team along? We all know he's really not a No. 2 starter, but if teams are willing to give up three players for him, including a young pitcher, should Krivsky pull the trigger? I've said yes, I'll continue to say yes, but know full well it won't happen. But maybe? Bueller, Bueller?

at 12/04/2007 11:45 AM Amy said...

There you go, Mr. Redlegs--a shiny new thread. I can think of something to bitch about: nothing happens at the winter meetings until I've already been up at least 6 hours. That's a long morning of waiting for scraps of baseball news.

at 12/04/2007 11:49 AM jshortt said...

Trent, it sounds like you're well on the way to breaking in those 360's, lol. That's a hell of an idea to log the important steps, or even the not-so-important ones. 'Step 3,012: got a cheeseburger' would make for an entertaining blog.Mr. R., I know what you're saying with Bronson, but I just don't know about giving up a proven major league innings eater who was the victim of more poor run support than bad outings last year, for guys who aren't proven or aren't ready yet. ESPECIALLY with pitching at such a premium. It seems like it would be a step backwards, imo.

at 12/04/2007 11:50 AM jdeezman said...

If they don't do that Mr. R, or look at giving up either Bailey or Bruce (which I don't see happening), then the Reds will not get a quality proven starter.I guess it comes down to this... Do you possibly mortgage your future for a proven commodity such as Haren, Willis or Bedard?

at 12/04/2007 11:50 AM Ashland ATeam said...

Mr. Redlegs,My preference - let's make Arroyo our 3 or 4 by getting better pitching! Rumor #1 - The Cubs and Reds talking about Josh Hamilton and Sean Marshall. Is that enough back straight up? (I'm torn - apparently, the Cubs are down on Matt Murton, though, and if we got both back for Hamilton and a prospect, then I'd do it for sure). Marshall could be huge, though, and his ERA last year would have been welcome in Cincy... Rumor #2 - The Reds and Giants talking, but not about Lincecum. Maybe a Eddie for Lowry deal? (I'd love that, by the way) Rumors everywhere - let's hope to get a couple deals done!

at 12/04/2007 11:52 AM docproc said...

Bailey in a package for Haren or Bedard? Okay.Bruce in a package for anyone? Nope.

at 12/04/2007 11:53 AM Mr. Redlegs said...

Amy, it's a long morning because no one's drunk yet. Or, they're not sober yet. Either way, blame the Red Sox.I hate the Red Sox. What were Harry and George Wright thinking?

at 12/04/2007 11:57 AM Palm Dry Gum On said...

Who'd be dumb enough to give up three players for Arroyo?

at 12/04/2007 11:59 AM Mr. Redlegs said...

Just guessing, but the Giants are the best match for a trading partner for the Reds. Lowry would be my choice, but I'd think it would have to be a multi-player trade.I believe the Reds were just kicking tires on Haren, Bedard and Willis. Gotta remember that kicking tires really means one team is asking the other what the price of the player will be. That's all. Doesn't mean anything substantial.

at 12/04/2007 12:04 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Depends on the team and the players, Palm.If the Yankees and Red Sox are willing to give up so much for Santana, wouldn't the loser of that grand larceny be willing to part with a smaller package of talent that still helps the Reds and helps them?

at 12/04/2007 12:07 PM Palm Dry Gum On said...

I guess so, I just never thought Arroyo could bring three players - no matter who they were.

at 12/04/2007 12:07 PM squid said...

But Mr. R without the Rockstar we will have no potential 'White-Man Corn Rows' And that would be a shame, a damn shame, a damn crying shame.......

at 12/04/2007 12:15 PM Kevin said...

C Trent,I must ask. I hear the rumors that the Reds could be in the mix for one of the top notch starters if they are willing to part with Homer or Bruce. From all indications, Bruce isn't going anywhere, so that would mean Homer. While I am not opposed to this, woundn't this though leave the Reds still in need of another pitcher as all idications have Homer in the starting 5 for next year? Are you hearing they are looking to trade as well as sign a veteran guy for the rotation?

at 12/04/2007 12:17 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Mr. Redlegs,Who would you rather pick up (knowing the price they would cost)? Noah Lowry? Sean Marshall? Dan Haren? Erik Bedard? Dontrelle Willis? Cliff Lee? Tim Lincecum?

at 12/04/2007 12:22 PM Phill said...

I'm just not sure what trading Bronson Arroyo away will do to helping the Reds get starting pitching for the present. I mean if you are getting an MLB ready/already there starter, what are the chances he's better than Bronson? I mean unless we're talking about adding to the building for the future which doesn't seem to go along with what move they've already made.Not sure if anyone else has talked about it but what about trading Votto in a package for a good starting pitcher? The Reds still have a couple of options to fall back onto at first base. Could Cantu return to his form in that 05 season where he just went off? I love rumours and silly trades people think up, hot stove is on and cookin'. Also maybe I'm just being too shut off of trading away most of the Reds' but I can't see trading away Edwin, the potential for him to just be an insane driving force offensively for the Reds just keeps telling me no way gotta keep him at least one more year. If only real life was like Fantasy Baseball where I can make the most lopsided trades to some baffoon.

at 12/04/2007 12:27 PM Amy said...

Mr. R, I finally read the Darryl Brock book. I give the baseball parts an A minus and the rest of the book a C. He tried to do too much, don't you think?LOVED the flowery sports prose of the day. The knights of the sanguinary hose? Sheesh.

at 12/04/2007 12:28 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Ashland, that's a good question. So . . .Bedard ain't staying past 2009 and the Orioles want Fort Knox for him. Cabrera would come cheaper. Oakland is dealing from a position of strength on Haren and outlay the Reds would have to pay would be substantial. Willis is overrated. Lee is too inconsistent. Marshall doesn't have enough experience and, really, that's what the Reds need--an experienced starter--if they plan to contend in 2008-09. Lincecum has more upside but there's little question the Reds would have to part with EE, Hamilton and a pitcher. So all things considered, I think Lowry is about the right fit. Lefty, experienced, shouldn't cost a mint. But I haven't looked up his contract status or know his GB/FB ratio or how he pitches in the smaller parks like GABP. Someone is welcome to squeeze the numbers. all things considered I'd probably say Lowry. He's left-handed, he's got experience,

at 12/04/2007 12:31 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Amy, excellent review on the Brock book. lemme think of your next assignment....Now, I'm going out for a bowl of chili cuz it's colder than Yukon Cornelius' nose. Hopefully something fun will happen in the next hour or so.

at 12/04/2007 12:33 PM Al in Ohio said...

I have to agree with Palm Dry Gum On, Mr. Redlegs. If "we" know that he's not really a #2 starter, why would any team be willing to give up three players, including a young pitcher, for him? As for your mention that the loser of the Santana sweepstakes might be interested, don't you think that if they're willing to trade away prospects for good pitching that the loser would more likely turn their attention to Bedard, Willis, Haren, etc., than Arroyo? There are a half-dozen starters being talked about right now that are better than Arroyo.BTW, to all of those who keep bringing up Bedard: reports have it that the Orioles are looking for a bigger package of prospects for him than the Twins are asking for Santana. Scratch his name off your wish list. Do it now.

at 12/04/2007 12:36 PM Meatwad said...

As long as the Reds keep Adam Harnag I'll be happy with any type of trade.

at 12/04/2007 12:41 PM harryinfla said...

Yeah, Phil, I just can't see the logic of trading Arroyo or Bailey for pitching. Maybe if we had 6 or 7 major league quality guys competing for the rotation, but to trade somebody that leaves you another gap to fill seems a step backwards...

at 12/04/2007 12:48 PM ctrosecrans said...

i agree harry, what the reds need is more pitching, not less. and bronson has as much value to the reds as to anyone. he's exactly the type of player they should be looking for. signed at a reasonable rate, eats innings, all the stuff you want.

at 12/04/2007 12:49 PM Al in Ohio said...

Wait wait wait wait wait."Willis is overrated"? But some team MIGHT trade three guys for Bronson Arroyo? Let's compare the two. For his career, Dontrelle Willis is 14 games over .500, with a 3.78 ERA, and 757 SOs. That's in only five years. In seven years, Arroyo is three games UNDER .500, with a 4.22 ERA, and 707 SOs (I mention SOs because I believe that in GABP, a SO pitcher will have more success, obviously). That's in seven years. We call Arroyo an "innings eater", and yet Willis is averaging over 6 innings per start for his career. I can't speak for everybody, but a top two of Harang and Willis is a LOT more appealing to me than Harang and Arroyo.

at 12/04/2007 12:55 PM ClarkKent said...

So with a rumored trade of Cabrera/Willis to the Tigers for Maybin/Miller, would anybody be willing to do Cabrera/Willis for Homer/Bruce. Cabrera is only 24 and is a power hitting right handed bat that this team really needs. This is the only type of deal I would consider Bruce in. Also I would include Homer in a deal for Haren.

at 12/04/2007 12:58 PM ctrosecrans said...

al, the team that overrates willis the most is the marlins. that's the first part. secondly, look at the last two seasons. first off, well, dontrelle hasn't been as good in the last two years and it's the first time bronson has gotten a shot to be a full-time starter. broson has thrown 31 2/3 more innings over the same number of starts in those two years. he's put up eras of 3.29 and 4.23 in the last two years. willis has put up 3.87 and 5.17 while pitching in a park much more beneficial to pitchers than the one where bronson's started. each of the last two years, i'd rather have bronson -- and over the two years combined, i'll take bronson.

at 12/04/2007 12:59 PM ctrosecrans said...

i wouldn't do that one, clark

at 12/04/2007 12:59 PM Davey4HoF said...

C Trent,You said yesterday you get a daily update in Krivsky's room. Do you really expect us to believe scribes are allowed in his room? If you were, you could plant a listening device and learn crucial information such as "Moo Shoo or Kung Pao tonite?"

at 12/04/2007 1:01 PM Al in Ohio said...

Trent, any word on who the Tigers would be giving up for those two? Wow, a possible entirely new left side of the infield for Detroit, and add Willis to that staff and they can wrap up the AL Central.And clarkkent, it would make ZERO sense for the Reds to make that deal. Not only would they be giving away their two best prospects, but you have to take future salary considerations in account also. Detroit's owner is willing to spend a LOT of money. Just because Castellini signed Cordero doesn't mean he's going to allow the Reds payroll to top $100 million anytime soon.

at 12/04/2007 1:02 PM ClarkKent said...

CTR,I'm not sure I would either I was suprised to see the Tigers offer that if it is true. But I wouldn't mind using Homer as trade bait for Bedard, Haren.

at 12/04/2007 1:04 PM Al in Ohio said...

We'll have to cordially agree to disagree, Trent. I would much rather have a righty/lefty hard-throwing top of the rotation like Harang and Willis, than have Arroyo. I'll be the first to admit I'm not as high on Bronson as some fans are. I think on a good staff he's a #4, maybe a #3 at best.

at 12/04/2007 1:17 PM Reds Fan in Illinois said...

Lowry has 1.01, 0.82, 1.29 G/F ratios the last three years (career of 1.00). He's 27, and hasn't pitched more than 160 innings the last two seasons (after pitching 204.2 in his first full season in 2005). He also tends to walk a lot of batters. He's a #3 or #4, but could be a consistent #3/4 for a long time to come.

at 12/04/2007 1:20 PM Bengal43 said...

What about Griffey and cash to the Cubs for Marshall? (don't forget the Pinella factor)If EE was traded, who would play 3B?

at 12/04/2007 1:20 PM Al in Ohio said...

If he DOES tend to walk a lot of batters, that would worry me. A lot of HRs are hit in GABP, and having starters who put a lot of guys on base just means a lot of runs for the other team. Think ERIC MILTON.

at 12/04/2007 1:24 PM JDGood said...

KEPPINGER/CANTU/FREEL COULD PLAY 3B If EE were traded

at 12/04/2007 1:25 PM Al in Ohio said...

I would only trade Ken Griffey Jr. if I wanted my team to have less of an identity than the Tampa Bay Rays.

at 12/04/2007 1:25 PM jshortt said...

Haha, it looks like nobody read this part of my 11:49 post: "Mr. R., I know what you're saying with Bronson, but I just don't know about giving up a proven major league innings eater who was the victim of more poor run support than bad outings last year, for guys who aren't proven or aren't ready yet. ESPECIALLY with pitching at such a premium. It seems like it would be a step backwards, imo."

at 12/04/2007 1:26 PM RedScoop said...

Bengal43: If they traded EE, I think the Reds strategy would be to play without a third baseman. Their pitchin might be good enough that you wouldn't need the extra fielder -- and it would save on budget (including abritration, laudry bills, etc.)It does seem like folks aren't thinking about the consequences of trading EE without replacement waiting in the wings (other than Freel/Farney.)

at 12/04/2007 1:30 PM Brett said...

trent, this blog is no longer on the right hand side. is this the beginning of the end?

at 12/04/2007 1:31 PM Joe said...

If I'm Krivsky, there is no way I accept Lowry for Encarnacion. It's not that the trade would be unfair and it's not that we couldn't use Lowry. However, under the circumstances, I would shoot for Cain or Lincecum. Obviously, this would take more than just EE, but if you look at the Giants roster, they are in some serious trouble next year offensively. It doesn't look like Feliz will be back, so they will need a 3B. There best offensive players right now are Ray Durham, Randy Winn, Rich Aurelia and Bengie Molina....yikes. I think we could get this trade done with a little bit of quantity. If I were in charge, I think I'd be willing to give up EE, Hamilton and someone like Freel or Hatteberg for Lincecum and someone like Brian Wilson or Brad Hennessey. We may have to even throw in a mid level offensive prospect, but that wouldn't bother me either. The Giants seem to be able to afford the pitching, while desperately needing the offense. I think it's possible that they can work something out.

at 12/04/2007 1:33 PM va.redsfan said...

Nice to read Trent's got time to hit the restroom. I thought this past season when Krivdawg got Cantu there might be a chance that he would use EE has a trade piece. And I still think he might. But trading Arroyo for a pitcher still leaves you looking for a pitcher, Willis is way overrated in my opinion and is going to get shelled if he goes to the AL.

at 12/04/2007 1:33 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Redscoop,Cantu will put up identical numbers to EE if given the chance. We do indeed have a guy waiting in the wings. My perfect world? We give up Edwin and Hamilton (although I'm definitely a fan of both) as well as some spare parts, and we come home with Noah Lowry AND Sean Marshall. Our rotation is both high upside and experienced, and it has 3 RH and 2 LH, making for a good mix. Our lineup takes a bit of a hit, but then again, if Votto is the real deal and Bruce is up by July, the Reds will be more than fine at scoring runs. That team, with that rotation, is in the playoffs in 2008.

at 12/04/2007 1:37 PM mham209 said...

Does anyone think we can get Lincecum for a combo of EE and Hopper/Freel? And, let's not forget about the possibility of Keppenger at 3B...

at 12/04/2007 1:39 PM Al in Ohio said...

OK, I have to know. Why do people think that the Reds are going to be able to get a lot in return for Josh Hamilton, an oft-injured guy who has played 90 games in his major league career?Please enlighten me.

at 12/04/2007 1:40 PM Al in Ohio said...

mham209: In a word, no.

at 12/04/2007 1:40 PM Amy said...

Va, out of your seven predictions for the winter meetings, we've seen #1 and #5 already. #3 will happen shortly. But what we really need are #2 and #4.

at 12/04/2007 1:42 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Al,The Hamilton for Marshall deal was rumored by a Cubs beat writer - not a Reds one. The Lowry for EE deal was rumored by Jerry Crasnick, not a Reds writer or fan. Just so you know.

at 12/04/2007 1:43 PM RedScoop said...

Kepp could play third.I'd be worried about banking on Cantu as my everyday 3B. He was (basically) cut by a bad team and had conflicts with his management. That's enough question marks to make me feel 100% comfortable with that solution. On the other hand, Cantu may turn out to be a steal. That's seems like too much of an unknown quantity.

at 12/04/2007 1:43 PM Amy said...

Hrm--must be lunchtime at the Opryland hotel. Yawn. Need. constant. updates.

at 12/04/2007 1:43 PM va.redsfan said...

It's coming Amy be patient.

at 12/04/2007 1:43 PM concepcionsf said...

Third base belongs to the Bulldog if EE goes.How about EE and Hamilton OR Votto for Lowry?

at 12/04/2007 1:46 PM Sabo said...

I have a question Trent(I feel like a 3rd grader saying that.When the Mitchell report is released, will the league have the authority to suspend those players as if they had just failed a drug test? If so, don't you think it should be released before free agency picks up? What is the general feeling about the Mitchell report among the other writers?

at 12/04/2007 1:46 PM RedScoop said...

OK. You can trade Hopper, Freel and EE. But there's no way we are ever giving up Farney. He has no history of injures.

at 12/04/2007 1:47 PM Reds Fan in Illinois said...

EE for Lowry, I'd do in a heartbeat. I'm not sold on EE, he's way too up and down. The one Reds name not thrown out much is Votto. If the Reds trade him, Dunn (or Griffey) can play first, along with Hatte.

at 12/04/2007 1:50 PM Dan said...

I want no part of Lowry. His strikeouts are on the decline -- about 5 K per 9 innings the last 2 seasons.Low-strikeout guys depend on defense, and keeping fly balls in the park. Reds defense is still below average. Reds park is tiny. Lowry is a terrible fit with our team in our stadium, in my opinion. Lowry - career home ERA 3.42 Lowry - career road ERA 4.85 Stay away, Wayne! I'd much rather have Lincecum (of course) or even Jonathan Sanchez, who is younger, cheaper, and can actually strike somebody out.

at 12/04/2007 1:52 PM Amy said...

There's about as much chance of Dunn or Griffey playing first as there is of the Reds stealing Santana from the Sox/Yankees :)

at 12/04/2007 1:55 PM Joe said...

Al, That's a fair enough question, and I have honestly wondered how other clubs value Hamilton. While obviously immensely talented, cheap, and under control for a long time, he is also injury prone and a recovering drug addict. Did the drugs play a part in his propensity for injuries? Most likely, but I think it is more a factor of not having played for four years. All that being said, I think that's part of why we should try to move him. If another team values him highly, move him. We have plenty of outfielders and we need a starter. If we can't get anything worthwhile, it doesn't cost much for us to hang on to him.concepcionsf, I would be wary of an EE for Lowry deal, so including Hamilton or Votto in that deal seems like way too much to me. If either of those guys are included, I'd look to get Lincecum or Cain back.

at 12/04/2007 1:58 PM Dan said...

Let's get Matt Murton over here (I think he'll come cheap). The guy can hit and he just hasn't been given a chance. The Cubs seem to want to give him away.I also like the fact that he's young, cheap, and right-handed. We don't have a single OF who hits right-handed w/ any sort of power. What would you think of Griffey for Murton and Marmol? Think either side would do that? I love Griffey... but I'd also love to see this team get younger, and get some STRIKEOUT guys on the pitching staff. Remember the Nasty Boys? They could flat blow you away. Rijo... Soto (before his arm got abused)... I really think strikeouts matter a LOT. (For pitchers, that is.) If you put together a pitching staff based on nothing but high strikeouts and low HR's, I think you'd have a GREAT staff. Lincecum - yes! Marmol - yes! J. Sanchez - yes Lowry - NO! Sorry... this was kind of all over the place...

at 12/04/2007 2:00 PM Al in Ohio said...

Thank you, Amy, for being a voice of reason.And Joe, if the Reds could, in fact, get the Cubs to send them a young LH starter like Marshall for Hamilton, that would explain a lot about the Cubs' last 100 years to me. Next question: Has anyone seen any rumors where ANY other teams are looking for Hopper and/or Freel to be included in any deal? I mean, a reserve outfielder and a multi-position role player coming off a serious injury? Is there a market for that? Would either of those two really be seen as a "sweetener" in any deal?

at 12/04/2007 2:04 PM va.redsfan said...

Freel or Hopper used to be trade bait for the Royals but since they hired Dayton Moore their turning it up a notch out there.

at 12/04/2007 2:08 PM Chris said...

The biggest development though, as pointed out by brett, is that the link to this blog has disappeared from the right side of the page. Maybe one of Ken Rosenthal's sources can dig up an explanation.

at 12/04/2007 2:09 PM RedScoop said...

Why are other teams going to trade us quality starting pitchers for our utility players?Lots of folks seem to be talking about such possibilities today. (Gosh ... I feel like I was channeling Mr. Redlegs there for a minute and the the feeling was ... vaguely disturbing.)

at 12/04/2007 2:09 PM Al in Ohio said...

VA, the reason I ask is because I've seen those two names thrown out constantly on here since the season ended, in some pretty ludicrous trade scenarios, and I wanted to know if maybe there was something I was missing about two guys who are too old to even be considered prospects anymore. Freel's on the wrong side of 30 (and injured), and I'm willing to bet that the consensus on Hopper is that phenoms don't explode onto the MLB stage at the age of 28. When people start talking about getting starting pitching with these two thrown into a deal, I have to raise my eyebrow a little.

at 12/04/2007 2:11 PM Ashland ATeam said...

I don't think Freel or Hopper are going anywhere, and if they are, it'll be for nothing... BUTJosh Hamilton's potential is enticing. He projected at 35+ HR, and nearly 100 RBI as a rookie (if he had stayed healthy). I think that the Reds could get Marshall for him, at least, since the Cubs are the ones who supposedly asked about Hamilton. And you all can bring up any stats you like. Here's mine - Noah Lowry wen 14-8 on a crappy team last year. The Reds have 4 starting pitchers on their 40 man roster, and one of them is Matt "Good For 3 and 1/3" Belisle. Lowry is an upgrade and would win 12-15 games as our #4 starter next year. End of story.

at 12/04/2007 2:12 PM Al in Ohio said...

May God pour his blessing upon you, Redscoop!!!!! I could NOT agree more. Of all the blogs I look at, this one has the most unlikely trade scenarios, hands down.I know people are euphoric about the Cordero signing. Maybe that's the cause of some temporary insanity.

at 12/04/2007 2:14 PM va.redsfan said...

Al I've read the stuff your talking about and think that anyone posting stuff like that is to steal a line from Mr. R "are on dope." Why anyone would trade anything of consequence for those two guys make no sense to me. Especially when you've got guys like Shannon Stewart you can sign as a free agent and give up no players.

at 12/04/2007 2:21 PM Al in Ohio said...

There's a very interesting fan psychology that I see on here.On one hand, people want to (or are at least willing to) get rid of players they don't value too highly. But paradoxically, they expect great players in return from other teams. Strange.

at 12/04/2007 2:35 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Definition of Irony:A man arrogantly mocks the ideas of others while espousing his own ideas, which, consequently, contradict facts and statistics espoused by the ones he is mocking. Boy do I wish I were as smart as the guys on this blog!

at 12/04/2007 2:36 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Everyone is on dope, especially the jackasses at Cincinnati.com, who eliminated the links for all Post blogs in the menu bar three weeks before the paper closes.What a bunch of goobs. Gannett is a wagonload of criminals. And Blogger sux. Had a great bowl of Texas chili, tho.

at 12/04/2007 2:38 PM JDGood said...

I think guys like Freel have a little value, at the trade deadline, when other teams have a need for a certain type of player to help their playoff run. But I agree him and hopper and guys like that have very little value this time of year. I would try to put a package consisting 2 of 3 from the group of Hamilton/Votto/EE, packaged with Cuerto and a slightly lower level prospect for a big time starting pitcher.

at 12/04/2007 2:38 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Barring another move, I'd think if EE is moved Cantu is the new 3b. Reasons:Krivsky has been fairly canny about making one move to set up another. Cantu is a proven hitter, he's young and they desperately need a right-handed bat in the lineup. His defense? Ugh. But do they loose anything at the plate by replacing EE with Cantu? Not really. Guy can hit. But nevertheless. . . . They kept Hatteberg and the reasons are the contract and, I believe, to see if there's market value for Votto. 1b can be filled pretty easily and fairly cheap. Useful 1bs are out there. Remember: You have to deal from strength to get strength in return. So if the offensive-hungry Giants are willing to part with one of their pitchers for Votto and EE, what did the Reds actually sacrifice? Votto, who has three weeks' service time and EE, who can be replaced from within the roster. It's an interesting dynamic, this Cantu factor.

at 12/04/2007 2:39 PM Cincy Buckeye said...

Hey Trent, I usually get to your blog through the tv blog, and the link was not there for some reason. Are they trying to tell you something?

at 12/04/2007 2:42 PM JDGood said...

How many steps are you up to Trent?

at 12/04/2007 2:45 PM ctrosecrans said...

cincy buckeye, i'm not going to say anything, ebcause it would get me in trouble.

at 12/04/2007 2:49 PM Cincy Buckeye said...

If you won't, I will. You write the most entertaining blog on the whole damn website, not just a bunch of crap that shows up in the paper the next day (or on a certain radio show at 6 PM).

at 12/04/2007 2:57 PM Andy said...

i'll try connecting the dots on the missing link...it seems to be a post/enquirer issue. josh katzowitz's 'bearcats' blog & lonnie wheeler's blog are also off the list, and they're both post writers. that's my educated guess at least.

at 12/04/2007 2:58 PM RedScoop said...

OK, OK. Here's one verified deal.The WWmL is reporting that Bowden is (apparently) resigning from the Nats to coach Clemson football. He immediately signed Willi Mo Pena to a scholarship with "must play" guarantees.

at 12/04/2007 2:59 PM Al in Ohio said...

Ashland, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that I am one of those you referred to in your oh so clever post. So, I will make this prediction:Of all of the trades, for all of the various pitchers, that I see on this blog, NONE of them will happen. Lincecum, Lowry, Haren, Bedard, Willis, you name it. NOT ONE of them will be pitching for the Reds next year. The Reds simply do not have the tradeable commodities that other teams are looking for (none that Krivsky is stupid enough to trade, anyway) to bring top notch players in return, and all of these scenarios will end up being sound and fury, signifying nothing. And while there are many stats thrown around on this page, there are very few facts. Opinions, yes. Speculation, certainly. Facts, not very often.

at 12/04/2007 2:59 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

I have to think Keppinger would be the 3rd baseman, not Cantu. His fielding is attrocious and that's reason enough. Keppinger's a better hitter and better fielder.As for the Lincecum ordeal, I'd be ok with trading Bruce for Lincecum, though they may want a bit more than just Bruce - who's still unproven at the ML level.

at 12/04/2007 3:04 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Keppinger's bat ain't no where close to Cantu's Not even in the same time zone. Cantu is a legit middle of the order hitter.

at 12/04/2007 3:09 PM Al in Ohio said...

I've seen that the trade talks about Scott Rolen going to Milwaukee have cooled, and now St. Louis is talking with the Giants and Dodgers. Gosh, why would they want a Gold Glove-winning, All Star 3B (or, for that matter, the still-on-the-market Miguel Cabrera) when they could have EE and Norris Hopper? (Refer back to my "none of these pitchers will be coming to Cincy" post.)Sorry, just being smart again.

at 12/04/2007 3:10 PM JDGood said...

Redlegs, Cantu has more power than Keppinger, but thatis his one and only advantage

at 12/04/2007 3:10 PM Grizzlyfox said...

So Al in your opinion are the Reds just going to sit on their hands and not trade for a starting pitcher, even when all signs are pointing in that direction? I mean, aren't you a Brewers fan anyway? Why do you care?

at 12/04/2007 3:16 PM Grizzlyfox said...

So did one guy today suggest Freel and Hopper for somebody or something? Good God, anybody with half a brain knows that those aren't the guys Cincy is talking about trading. And yes, Miguel Cabrera, a 22 or 23 year old is on the same level as Scott Rolen, a guy that has the lost the ability to stay healthy and perform over the last 3 years? Ignorance is bliss, or so they say.

at 12/04/2007 3:18 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Al,I never said I was talking about you. In fact, I'm fairly sure I didn't name any names. If you feel that you might be the 'arrogant man' in the aformentioned topic, then I'm just not sure what to say. You might want to work on your own self image. And, for the record, I agree with you to a point. The Reds will not get Willis (he's been terrible for two solid seasons; not sure why anyone would be excited about him), Haren (boy did we undershoot on what they'd ask for), Bedard (the future $30 million pitcher) or any number 1 starter out there. But Lowry? Doable. Sean Marshall? Doable. Other number 3/4 starters when we're willing to deal Hamilton, EE, etc.? Doable. Oh, and I'm glad you found my post clever. I appreciate the compliment!

at 12/04/2007 3:19 PM Al in Ohio said...

Yes, I am primarily a Brewers fan, but obviously, living here, I follow the Reds as well (and more easily).And I think the Reds WILL try and get a starting pitcher. And they might succeed. But not with the names people are throwing around on here. Another ESPN report says the Orioles are close to a deal with the Dodgers for Bedard, so we can probably scratch another name off the Reds fan fantasy list. The bottom line is that the Reds aren't as deep in the minors as some other teams are, so they aren't going to be willing to trade their best prospects. The report says the Dodgers will give up Matt Kemp and Johnathan Broxton, and unless the Reds are willing to trade Bruce and Bailey, they're not going to be able to match those kinds of offers. I'm sorry, but EE, Hamilton, Freel, Hopper, etc., just aren't going to cut it.

at 12/04/2007 3:20 PM JDGood said...

And to tell you the truth, I'm not sure how much power Cantu has anymore either.he's only had 20 or more home runs twice (2004 and 2005)in his major and minor league career. Don't be suprised if you see his name in the Mitchell report when it comes out.

at 12/04/2007 3:23 PM Ashland ATeam said...

I would sooner light myself on fire than root for the local team just because I moved there... and yes, I've faced the dilemma since I'm currently living in Missouri, right between KC and STL.But that's just me.

at 12/04/2007 3:23 PM JDGood said...

Kepp has hit over .300 every year of his pro career

at 12/04/2007 3:26 PM Grizzlyfox said...

The only problem with that is from what I've heard on the grapevine is that the Rangers and Cubs came to the Reds expressing interest in Hamilton and the Giants want EE. And also a trade isn't done until it's done. Just go ask the Red Sox, they gotta be scared to death thinking of what the Angels might offer later today.

at 12/04/2007 3:26 PM Al in Ohio said...

And Ashland, I agree with you as well, about Marshall in particular. But you'd have to admit that most of the talk on here as been about guys who have been #1 or #2 starters on their teams, and those kinds of guys just don't come cheap.I've just been amazed that so many fans are acting like the Reds are all of a sudden going to turn into big players in the trade and free agency markets, when the reality is that they're a small-market team with fewer resources, scant talent at the major league level, and only a handful of prospects in the minors. There's a reason why we hear the same teams mentioned over and over in regards to these deals.

at 12/04/2007 3:27 PM KRCincy said...

Joe Nuxhall has made it on the final ballot for the Frick award with a record number of fan votes...one broadcaster he's up against is Joe Morgan.

at 12/04/2007 3:27 PM va.redsfan said...

Ashland your in the enemies backyard. Have you been to the Cards new stadium? Doesn't look bad on TV.

at 12/04/2007 3:29 PM Al in Ohio said...

The reason I'm "forced", if you will, to pay a lot of attention to the Reds is because my kids, growing up here, are not Brewers fans. Plus, if I want to go and see a game at the ballpark, where do you think I'd go? (And yes, when the Brewers are in town, I root for them to beat the Reds like dogs.)

at 12/04/2007 3:31 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

JD, Keppinger is a singles hitter with exactly one-half a big-league season after a career in the minors. If you are a GM and going into spring training with him penciled in as a starter then you are bonkers.Cantu is gap hitter who, in that park, has the swing and body type to be a 35-double, 30-homer power player. Plus he's already got 1,300 career at-bats and he's just about to turn 26. This one ain't even close.

at 12/04/2007 3:34 PM Ashland ATeam said...

Va,The new Cards stadium is fantastic... I went once, spent $35 to sit in the upper deck in the outfield, and decided my money is better spent at Kauffman (where $8 gets you anywhere in the upper level).

at 12/04/2007 3:35 PM Grizzlyfox said...

There are three reasons why the Reds will be willing to trade young major talent: 1.The obvious lack of FA SP. 2. Big Bob wants to win and win now. 3. Wayne Krivsky likes his job and wants to keep it, and that ain't happening if this team doesn't turn the ship around.

at 12/04/2007 3:37 PM Al in Ohio said...

Does anyone else find it funny that John Fay's blog has almost no activity whatsoever? That's not a slap at John, but I'd think it would give the Enquirer management pause.

at 12/04/2007 3:38 PM va.redsfan said...

I've heard you get more bang for your buck going to see the Royals. That was a hell of a vote total for Nuxhall. MLB has that out of 122,505 fans how participated 82,304 voted for Joe (67.2%).

at 12/04/2007 3:41 PM Al in Ohio said...

grizzlyfox, in 1+ year as an owner, "Big Bob" has signed off on exactly ONE transaction of any consequence. And GMs don't often keep their jobs by mortgaging the future for the CHANCE of success. I know I'm in the minority on here, but I think the Reds are farther than one move away from catching the Cubs and Brewers. The Reds can catch the Brewers by building like the Brewers did, not like the Yankees and Red Sox do.

at 12/04/2007 3:41 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

And the last time Cantu did anything relavent in the majors was what year???And unless I'm mistaken Keppinger had his fair share of doubles for the limited number of at bats he had. You can have Keppinger and his bat control, 35-40 doubles, and .320 avg. or you can have Cantu and his .260 avg and conglomerate of errors that in the long run will wipe out his power advantage. You're right Redlegs, this one ain't even close. And for those saying we don't have the minor league/youthful resources to wheel and deal, I'd beg to differ. Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, Votto, Hamilton, and EE are all highly touted, cheap, and very young. Seems to me that Bailey, Hamilton, and EE should get us Lincecum and Lowry and we wouldn't miss a beat. Some won't like the deal, but I think Lincecum is heads and shoulders above Bailey - so we'd be upgrading our 3 spot in the rotation plus adding Lowry to the 4 spot. I think Lincecum has ace material as soon as the 2nd half of this year, and Bailey is probably still 2 years away from ace material. Though I will admit, it seems like the Giants should be adding something else to the deal, I'm just not sure what.

at 12/04/2007 3:48 PM Cincy Buckeye said...

Al, if you think Fay's is bad, try Curnutte's Bengal blog. It ought to be the Bengal Blah Blah Blah. The only time it has been worth a damn in 2 years in when he was out and Dustin Dow was filling in.

at 12/04/2007 3:51 PM Al in Ohio said...

Clueless, you think that San Francisco is so desperate for offense that they're going to give up 2/5 of their starting rotation?? For a prospect with one quality pitch, a guy who's played 90 games at the MLB level, and a 3B who's had one good offensive season?Wow, I'd love to see the Reds make that deal, don't get me wrong. Then again, it'd be fun watching Giants fans draw and quarter Brian Sabean right after it.

at 12/04/2007 3:53 PM REDSFANinMICH said...

I'm sorry - WK picks up Burton and Hamilton in Rule 5 draft, steals BP from Cleveland and (this is my personal favorite) trade gets the #10 rated prospect in the orgainization for Kyle Lohse...those moves ALONE buy him at least 2 more years in my book.

at 12/04/2007 3:54 PM Mark said...

ctr,baseball.org - that's funny. Baseball as a nonprofit...hah. Great news about Joe. I surely hope he makes it, and that Marty is allowed to induct him. Anyway, in the immortal words of baseball.org: coming soon...

at 12/04/2007 3:55 PM Amy said...

Wow--the blog is hoppin' today. I almost overlooked the return of Meatwad.And I'm going to allow myself a moment of wistfulness about having no Mackanin this year--he always made the postgame comments worth staying up for.

at 12/04/2007 4:00 PM Al in Ohio said...

I'm willing to place a bet that if SF wanted to trade both Lowry and Lincecum to the same team, they could get Rolen or Cabrera in return to play 3B. Good Lord, they were talking about sending Rolen to Milwaukee for Chris Capuano and a prospect, let alone two legitimate starters.

at 12/04/2007 4:00 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

I have no idea where you think Castellini has signed off on ONE deal, but he's signed off on EVERY move Krivsky has wanted to do that involved adding payroll.For starters, they extended Harang and Arroyo. They picked up the option on Dunn. They extended Freel, Coffey and Valentin. In 2006, when the Reds were in play and badly needing pitching, they added payroll left and right picking up pieces in hope and prayer to win the division. They've also had to eat a few contracts and may yet have to eat Stanton's. So I have no idea where this Castellini-Is-a-Cheap-Bastard stuff comes from.

at 12/04/2007 4:03 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Cantu is exactly one season removed from hitting 14 homers, 18 doubles and driving in 62 in just 107 games.And the Reds need a middle-of-the-order, right-handed power bat.

at 12/04/2007 4:06 PM Al in Ohio said...

Mr. Redlegs, you've put words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely like "Castellini is a cheap bastard". I was talking in terms of bringing in players from outside, i.e. free agents, trading for players who were coming up on arbitration/free agency, etc. And if you're willing to give them kudos for extending Freel, Coffey, and Valentin, maybe it's a "judgement" issue, not a "willingness to pay" issue.

at 12/04/2007 4:08 PM Sabo said...

Because it is relevant now, I'll ask again. This goes out to anyone with knowledge of the situation.When the Mitchell report is released, will the league have the authority to suspend those players as if they had just failed a drug test? If so, don't you think it should be released before free agency picks up? What is the general feeling about the Mitchell report among the other writers?

at 12/04/2007 4:12 PM Al in Ohio said...

Sabo, since I expect that many, if not most, of the steroid and HGH users and their purchases that we hear about are going to be from the years before MLB toughened its policy, I think the player's union will go nuts if the league tries to summarily suspend any of the players named.

at 12/04/2007 4:21 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

Al, the Giants don't want an oft-injured and extremely expensive Scott Rolen, and evidently they don't want Cabrera or else you'd be hearing about Lincecum for Cabrera, or the Marlins are more interested in quantity as opposed to quality.And yes, the Giants are more than desparate for offensive help. Can you name an offensive threat in that line-up right now?? Not a chance. You say they'd be trading away 2/5 of their rotation, but not really considering they would be getting Bailey back in return, and whether you like Bailey or not, he's still ranked as one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball. The Giants would still have Cain, Sanchez, and Bailey at the front of their rotation, and they would have addressed some of their offensive concerns, concerns which are quite plentiful out there.

at 12/04/2007 4:21 PM Grizzlyfox said...

Sabo here's one link "http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3078690"-So yes, I'd assume if your name is on that list, you'd better be prepared. I also heard somewhere that the 11 free agents that were on the list have already been told, so I'd assume the teams that are talking to them know about their situation.

at 12/04/2007 4:21 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

This post has been removed by the author.

at 12/04/2007 4:36 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Thought you all might enjoy this tidbit from my man Roch Kubatko's blog in the Balto. Sun. Roch has a nice touch his blog is often really funny, too:[A.J.] Burnett’s never won more than 12 games – a stat that probably catches a lot of people by surprise – and he hasn’t been the most durable pitcher in baseball. He’s 67-65 in nine seasons, though a 3.79 ERA says he’s better than his record shows. He’s only 30, he throws in the upper 90s and he can be dominant on any given night. But knowing the Orioles’ luck, he’d blow out his elbow while signing autographs at FanFest. Burnett would give the Orioles a replacement No. 1 starter for Bedard – and their only pitcher with nipple rings - but the rest of the package would be critical to any deal getting done. Again, the Orioles need young offensive talent. A left fielder. A center fielder. A first baseman. Somebody. That's how you rebuild.

at 12/04/2007 4:41 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

HEY! The Post's blog links have returned to the menu bar! The people have spoken!I think it has something to do with being called jackasses, goobs and criminals. Gannett is really touchy about being called names.

at 12/04/2007 4:43 PM Amy said...

Isn't it about time for the daily Krivdawg meeting?I just *know* if anything of interest happens it'll be this evening while I'm at a 5th-grade band concert. Somebody text me.

at 12/04/2007 4:46 PM Amy said...

Marcel Marceau likes to talk more than Krivsky does.

at 12/04/2007 4:49 PM JDGood said...

yes Cantu had 14 HR's but he hit just .249 and his on base % was under .300. Plus those 14 Hr's only equate to 21 for a 162 game schedule. He has hit a total of 4 HR's in his last 288 major league AB's, and only 3 more in 188 minor league ab's during that time. 7 HR's in 476 AB's, wow what power. during approximately the same time span Keppinger has actually hit 9 HR's in 300 AB's Cantu Had 1+ year of being a power hitter in his career. makes you wonder huh?

at 12/04/2007 5:04 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

No, it doesn't make me wonder, JD. It really doesn't.Cantu had a foot injury and was also suffering a brain disease called "Being Stupid." Many times these guys need a new start somewhere else, like what happened when Guillen came to the Reds. Now, he's a $12 million a year player. Cantu's bat speed is something else and he's produced when he played regularly. The Reds really, really need right-handed power. Don't know why that's so hard for people to understand. Keppinger is not a middle guy and he's not an everyday player, imo. Time and again we see these career minor-leaguers come up, show a spurt and then come back to what they were originally scouted. But there is great value in him being the top infielder off the bench. That's a huge benefit to the team and he can still get 300 ABs.

at 12/04/2007 5:08 PM Ashland ATeam said...

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times:Getting Cantu for what they did was fantastic. If given 150 games, he'll knock in 100 runs and hit 30 HR. He's that good. Here's hoping for a trade so we can see what he can do!

at 12/04/2007 5:20 PM JDGood said...

I actually like Cantu, I just think that a lot of his power that he USED to have may not have been all natural. I hope I'm wrong and he hits 40 bombs and drives in 120runs, I just don't see it. I agree that Keppinger probably isn't an every day thirdbaseman (2b maybe), he doesn't have the power. but as much as the Reds need a RH power bat they also need guys who don't swing for the fence every AB. If EE were traded a mix of the 2 and and maybe even freel every once in a while wouldn't be too bad.

at 12/04/2007 5:26 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Has Cantu failed any drug tests?Have you seen his upper body? That guy's got some pipes. Defense is an enormous question with him, but not that Bucky Dumbass Dent is no longer around and Chris Speier, one of the best infield coaches you'll ever see, is aboard, I think to think Cantu could be better served on third. I just don't think they picked him up to be a bit player. He's too young, too talented.

at 12/04/2007 5:27 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

I also need to turn on a @#$%&! light so I can see what I'm typing.

at 12/04/2007 5:29 PM Davey4HoF said...

Mr.R, I like Cantu's bat as well, but can the Reds afford to play him at 3rd if EE is traded? I agree Kepp probably isn't an everyday player, especially at 3rd, but who do we play at 3rd if EE is traded? Some people are saying Freel, but he is no gold glover at 3rd either, and how can Freel/Farney play more than 100-120 games without getting hurt. You have to trade value to get value, but I wonder who can play everyday at 3rd besides EE on this roster.

at 12/04/2007 5:32 PM Davey4HoF said...

Mr. R, I'm a little slow on my previous comment, but I thought they picked up Cantu to play first, as the Kriv isn't/wasn't as high on Votto as some and could use him as trade bait.

at 12/04/2007 5:38 PM docproc said...

Play Cantu at first base, where he's not much of a defensive liability. I'm with you, Mr. R.--I think he's a serious middle-of-the-order threat from the right side of the plate.I differ, however, with Mr. R.'s assessment of Keppinger. I'd love to see him at SS every day. Not much has been said about trading A-Gon. I think there are teams that would gladly trade for him. I love Votto, but he's great trade bait if we put Cantu at first. He's Sean Casey with a bit more power and a bit less defense.

at 12/04/2007 5:40 PM Joel said...

Keppinger's agent is a nice guy, right CT? I worked as an intern for that company and Todd West (Keppy's agent) was one of the first people I met there. Good Guy. Career Sports and Entertainment...good company too. They represent smoltz and a bunch of other people also...

at 12/04/2007 5:50 PM docproc said...

And to support my case about Kepp over supposed defensive specialist A-Gon:Keppinger: 2 errors in 124 attempts at SS last year. And a .332 batting average. Gonzalez: 16 errors in 263 attempts at SS last year. And a .272 batting average. I was psyched about A-Gon when we got him, but he made a lot of errors in crucial situations--not unlike Felipe Lopez. Gonzo is under contract for a couple of years and that should be attractive to potential suitors. Trade him now. Kepp rakes.

at 12/04/2007 5:59 PM ctrosecrans said...

kepp certainly does rakeand, yeah, west seemed to be a good guy, as were all the guys that are here. when i looked up the agency, realized there was someone else there i knew, mark carmony from my uga days also, one thing to keep in mind about gonzo, he had some heavy issues on his shoulders last year

at 12/04/2007 5:59 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

You need to take those fielding stats and toss them out the window.Gonzalez made most of his errors in a period around the time his kid's life was in peril. Additionally, and I did the research, his errors led to something like only 12 earned runs and cost them exactly one game, one of those against the Astros in late April or early May. If you saw him play daily, yes, his biggest mistakes were on some routiners and a couple of bizarre things around the bag. But he also made a ton of plays Jeff Keppinger doesn't make even in his biggest Mark Belanger dreams. Additionally, Gonzalez played very well in his time during the second half, offensively and defensively, once his home life settled down. I believe he deserves a pass on last season. Keppinger made all the routine plays but Ms. R's pissy little dog has more range, especially to the left, and Keppinger's ability to turn the DP is a bit lacking. In overtime, Keppinger was better than expected at SS but not good enough on an everyday basis, and certainly defensively not in the overall ballpark of what Gonzalez is in his normal year. That guy can play the position.

at 12/04/2007 6:08 PM Dan said...

I am not sold on Cantu at all. He was good in 2004 and 2005, sure, but besides that he has done NOTHING.In 2006, Cantu hit 16 HR's in 444 AB's (mostly majors). In 2007, Cantu hit 4 HR's in exactly 300 AB's (majors and minors combined). That's not good at all. Also, his slugging percentage at the major league level (.450) is 56 points HIGHER than his minor-league slugging (.394). That just isn't normal. Plus the low OBP and terrible fielding and supposed character issues... I'm just really not sold on the guy. Keppinger, by the way, has 10 HR's in 417 career major league AB's. Not great but not bad. Here are their career MLB averages: Cantu - .273/.312/.450 Keppinger - .309/.367/.439 I'll take Keppinger any day, and that's not even considering defense. I could see Keppinger developing along the lines of a Mark Loretta.

at 12/04/2007 6:16 PM harryinfla said...

CTR and Mr R, my thoughts exactly. Anyone in Gonzales' shoes would have been hard pressed to perform up to his capabilities. You have to look at his career and not one out-of character year.

at 12/04/2007 6:20 PM liz said...

Hey, Trent!Why isn't your blog site on Cincinnati.com. What's up?

at 12/04/2007 6:28 PM PresidentJohnAllenJr. said...

Bruce and Bailey or Cueto for Bedard. That is stupid!! What can the Reds get for Harang and Arroyo? Two quality young players for a lefty starter. GEE!!!! Dr. K gave up Kearns and Lopez for two young bullpen pitchers. Go figure. Uuh, Mr. Redlegs said we can't get a frontline starter. The Reds are talking to teams with young players involved. I don't know what the Reds are thinking. Go for the title next year and hell with the younger players. The Haren deal would be better but he said today he didn't want to be traded. Hamilton and EE should go before anyone else. The Tigers were talking to the Marlins, Cabrera and Willis for Maybin and Miller. Any comments?

at 12/04/2007 6:30 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

If GMs made their rosters based on OBP there would be about eight teams in MLB and and four of them couldn't fill the 4-5-6 slots.Know what's really funny? On baseball-reference.com, the active batter most similar to Cantu is . . . Edwin Encarnacion.

at 12/04/2007 6:41 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

WOW! Kenny Rosenthal says the Tigers traded six prospects to the Marlins for Willis and Cabrerra. WOW!Question: Hypothetically speaking (meaning, in premise), should the Reds make this kind of deal? Give away the bank, go for the gold. Question: Can you imagine what Willis and Cabrerra would have done for the Reds? On the field? At the gate? In TV and radio ratings? Holy cow! Question: Why would anyone ever follow the Marlins? Another purge. Dissolve the franchise. Just ridiculous.

at 12/04/2007 6:41 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Uh, Cabrera.

at 12/04/2007 6:48 PM jtneuge said...

Great trade for Florida. They should win another world series in a couple of years.

at 12/04/2007 6:48 PM Dan said...

Mr. R - I don't get what you mean about OBP. Do you object to using it as part of evaluating a hitter?As for the blockbuster Tigers/Marlins deal, I actually think the Marlins did great! Dontrelle's numbers have been headed in the wrong direction, and he's pitched about 1000 innings before age 26. He's a giant red flag. Dealing him before an injury (although after he's been "abused") strikes me as smart and proactive. And Maybin and Miller... holy cow! They're two of the best prospects in baseball. (And not like A-ball prospects either. They've made the majors, if only barely.) I predict the Tigers win this deal this year, and the Marlins win it BIG over the long term.

at 12/04/2007 6:53 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Dan, I'm saying don't judge every hitter on OBP.The point about the Marlins is they are constantly trading for the future. If you're a fan, you just get tired of your team always saying, "next year," and trading your good young players while they are still good, young and cheap. Man, the Tiggers have a really good lineup and rotation right now. Really, really good.

at 12/04/2007 6:58 PM Sabo said...

I'd say it is a good trade for both teams, and the kind of trade the Reds can't make. They aren't as good as the Tigers, and can't afford to sell the farm to get 1-2 pieces and go for broke. They are more than 1-2 pieces away. No way I'd trade for Santana, or Bedard or Haren (well obviously I would if I could swindle the other team)at the going price. One ace won't bridge the gap from where the team is now, and the playoffs. Sure, it will help, but it isn't a solution.

at 12/04/2007 7:18 PM Sabo said...

Man it would be hard to be a Marlins fan. You know that your team is going to be a real contender every 5-6 years, but you also know that it's only going to last 1-2 seasons, and then all of those players are going to be shipped out.I should clarify my last post. I'm not against trading for pitching, I think we have to. However, from what I am reading the cost to get those front line pitchers is too extreme for the Reds. I wouldn't do it...this year. I would look at it next season, and definately next offseason. This next year is a year to see what we have. Are Bailey, Cueto, Votto, and Bruce the real deal? Can Hamilton stay productive for an entire year? Is EE going to play like he started to last year, or is he going to continue to be a roller coaster? In my mind, for this small-market club, All of these players are too young, cheap, and highly rated to trade before seeing what you have.

at 12/04/2007 7:26 PM Sabo said...

Also, thanks Al and Grizz for the info on the Mitchell report. I wish I was a lawyer for the players union, I have a feeling they will be getting pretty rich soon.

at 12/04/2007 7:27 PM concepcionsf said...

Moving on from trades..Do you take Silva, Livan, or the Japanese pitcher Kuroda? I'd go for the latter at 10 mil/year. It would help that there is a Toyota connection in N.Ky and may lead to more interest in the Reds from abroad.

at 12/04/2007 7:30 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Sabo, the problem with waiting on guys like Hamilton, Votto and Bailey is that you know they have some market now. But if they regress, you have absolutely no way to get return value on them a year from now.It's a tough call, but I'd be more apt to deal now if the return was helpful for the 2008-'09 seasons.

at 12/04/2007 7:31 PM ctrosecrans said...

kuroda is good. and he's gonna get at least 10 a year. i think it's now a question of the years. trey hillman raved about him. said he'd be anyone's no. 3 pitcher and many teams he'd be higher.that said, i think it's too steep for the reds right now to throw gil meche-like money at kuroda. the one thing kuroda has is that he's a true free agent, so there is no posting fee

at 12/04/2007 7:32 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

I like Livan. Guy takes the ball, he's a big-game pitcher, he goes 8-9 innings and has some pretty terrific Cuban music in the clubhouse.

at 12/04/2007 7:38 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

Here's the thing Sabo, we're not looking to trade our youth (Bruce, Votto, Bailey, Cueto, Hamilton) for 33 year old veterans, I believe we're looking to trade it for other young players who just happen to be pitchers.A guy like Lincecum is 23 years old and already showed that he is a force to be reckoned with at the major league level, averaging over a strikeout an inning. The guy throws in the upper 90s and has a Dwight Gooden-like curve that buckles knees. Bedard is only 28 - though signability may be an issue, but considering we will lose Griffey's salary after next season and possibly Dunn's the money should be plentiful for Bedard long-term. Haren is 27 and considering the same money availability with Dunn and Griffey possibly being gone, a long-term contract should not be out of the realm of possiblity. Matt Cain is only 23 years old and I believe has another 3 years before hitting free agency. I guess what I'm saying is that we are not mortgaging the future because we're getting the future right back in the deal, just in a different guy. I would have no problem including Bruce in a Lincecum, Haren, or Bedard deal, though he would be a last resort for me. Available studs like these do not grow on trees.

at 12/04/2007 7:56 PM redbeard said...

While Mr. R and Clueless don't ever seem to agree on anything I do think their combined posts in this thread do point to one thing and that is between Cantu and Keppinger the Reds could afford to trade EE in the right deal.Likewise in the outfield the Reds do have trade bait available. I'd be interested to see what management envisions the outfield to look like beyond next season. For instance what are their long term plans for Adam Dunn and how much more productivity do they expect to get out of Griffey. If they plan on extending Dunn then it makes Hamilton expendable. If they do not then to trade Hamilton would be a mistake, in my opinion. Without question Jay Bruce should be one of the cornerstones of the franchise and a starter in the outfield at least by the start of 2009 and probably more like the middle of next season. Beyond that the outfield is fuzzy. Hopper and Freel give the Reds flexability to move Hamilton if Dunn is signed long term. I have to think a package deal of EE, Hamilton, and say the Reds #3 starting pitching prospect (Matheany I think his name is they got in the Loshe deal) would garner the attention of teams with starting pitchers to trade. That trio (EE, Hamilton, Matheany)won't even come close for Santana, but do you guys think it could peak the interest of teams listening to offers for Bedard, Haren, Blanton, Lincecum, Cain, or Lowery? -- Redbeard

at 12/04/2007 8:08 PM JDGood said...

name is Maloney those three would be too little for Bedard and haren, and way, way too much for Lowery. Lowery is a pitch to contact pitcher who relies on his defense. I think we know how those types have turned out for the Reds in the recent past. The most I would consider is one of those guys or Votto for him.

at 12/04/2007 8:10 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Don't think EE, Hamilton and Maloney even bring a waiter to the table for these high-end pitchers. Only one of those players is remotely established, and that's just two seasons.

at 12/04/2007 8:26 PM redbeard said...

Fair enough thanks for the reply on that one guys. Here is another hypothetical:Say you are a G.M of another team and you have an offer from the Reds that includes two scenarios which would you choose? 1. Reds offer Jay Bruce and Maloney for one of your pitchers or 2. Reds offer EE, Hamilton, Votto and Maloney for one of your pitchers Which trade looks better to you as the G.M. of another team? (I'm trying to get a grip on whether teams would prefer the quantity of 3 guys with maybe All-Star calibur talent or 1 guy with Hall of Fame calibur talent (and before you flame on me I'm not saying any of the 3 are sure fire All-Stars nor am I saying Bruce is a sure fire Hall Of Famer just that would probably be the ceiling most scouts would put on their individual talents)).

at 12/04/2007 8:27 PM Sabo said...

I understand what you are saying Clueless, but I still wouldn't do it unless the deal blew me away.The difference between Lincecu or Cain and Bailey is one to one and half years of MLB experience. I understnad that matters, but I don't think it makes up the difference we'd have to give up in addition to Bailey. Everything I have read suggests to get in the door with those guys would have to something like Bailey, plus two of these 5; Hamilton, EE, Cueto, Votto, Bruce. In that Situation I think you have to trust your scouting and farm system that has always told you Bailey is a legit #1. Why trade him plus other young talent, to get another potential #1? Especially when one of the guys, as CTR mentioned, you have already passed on in Lincecum. With Bedard, Santana, and Haren I think you have to pay too much in both players and salary for their to be a match. Maybe what I have read is wrong, and we could get one of these guys for Bailey or Cueto and a few other mid-level pieces, but everything suggests it would take at least 3 of our young, cheap, and talented players. I wouldn't do it.

at 12/04/2007 8:31 PM Sabo said...

I think most all GM's look for quality over quantity. No way the Marlins make that deal if it wasn't Maybin and Miller. No way the Twins make the Santana trade unless it is at least 2 top tier prospects plus something else.

at 12/04/2007 8:37 PM BubbaFan said...

Trent, thanks for sharing that statement from Kim Nuxhall.Anything to the report that Bailey is being traded for Bedard?

at 12/04/2007 8:40 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

If the Orioles turn down Bedard for Aaron Heilman, Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber from the Mets, then what shot do the Reds have?It'd have to be Bailey, EE, Votto or Hamilton. Ain't worth it.

at 12/04/2007 8:40 PM Cincy Buckeye said...

Trent's link is back up at Cincinnati.comYou know what's funny? You go to the Post's page and you can contact any editor to let them know what you think. The Enquirer basically hides it. I guess they are smarter than we are over there...must be related to Marvin Lewis. I think the Tigers overpaid, but I guess you have to for a decent starter these days. Maybe contraction wouldn't have been a bad thing to get the talent level back up.

at 12/04/2007 8:42 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Tha Redleg Nation rumor hasn't been reported by ESPN, Balto. Sun, Wash Post or Kenny Rosenthal, and that was more than 30 minutes ago.

at 12/04/2007 8:49 PM RedScoop said...

This post has been removed by the author.

at 12/04/2007 8:51 PM RedScoop said...

Trent -- for the record, tonight's blog is one of your best ever. Correct, Amy? (she gets to make these things official since she is our denmother.)Could CTR be the BRTNL in the Bedard-Bailey trade? Maybe that's the final piece the O's (and Baltimore Sun) were demanding. And K-dag and the Post have been holding out. THAT'S why the blog link was down -- UNTIL TRENT PASSED HIS PHYSICAL, there was no deal!

at 12/04/2007 8:51 PM Sabo said...

You know what is nice? That we actually have players we can offer up in imaginary deals, and won't be completely fooling ourselves. Sure, some of the deals are foolish, but we do have the pieces to make deals, and that is nice.Mr R. What do you think it takes to get Lowry? Hamilton or EE straight up? Votto and a second tier prospect? What about your boys from Toronto you are always talking about? I also like Livan. He just kills innings. He'd be a great addition to a team that is likely to have some young pitchers. Gives the bullpen a rest every 5th day, even if you are assured it will take 5 runs to win the game.

at 12/04/2007 8:51 PM Sabo said...

You know what is nice? That we actually have players we can offer up in imaginary deals, and won't be completely fooling ourselves. Sure, some of the deals are foolish, but we do have the pieces to make deals, and that is nice.Mr R. What do you think it takes to get Lowry? Hamilton or EE straight up? Votto and a second tier prospect? What about your boys from Toronto you are always talking about? I also like Livan. He just kills innings. He'd be a great addition to a team that is likely to have some young pitchers. Gives the bullpen a rest every 5th day, even if you are assured it will take 5 runs to win the game.

at 12/04/2007 8:58 PM EDavis44 said...

Sorry I'm late to the party, just caught up on all the comments...Does anyone else ever feel like they've got a little angel on one shoulder and a little devil on the other when reading the posts of Mr. Redlegs and Clueless? Both catch your attention, both have points that make you think. Occasionally, they even switch roles.

at 12/04/2007 9:13 PM RedScoop said...

(BTW, I was serious about the compliment. I just couldn't help adding the humor. I will stop now before I joke again.)

at 12/04/2007 9:54 PM Amy said...

Any time you can mention both public self-gratification AND the Price is Right in one day's blog? Yep, this one has to be way up there.

at 12/04/2007 9:54 PM Dave from Louisville said...

Trent,Redlegnation.com is reporting a Bedard to the Reds for a Bailey package!!! Please give us your take to refute or confirm this rumor!!

at 12/04/2007 9:55 PM Tom said...

I know I'm late, but I just got caught up reading all the action.On the Cantu vs Keppinger debate. You guys talking like these two are grizzled veterans. Cantu is still very young. At Cantu's current age, Keppinger had a fantastic minor league stat line of 116 AB, 3 HR, and a .284/.317/.379 hitting line. Everyone knows hitters develop power with age, and Cantu hasn't received the healthy everyday at bats the last two years, at any level. Cantu's major league stat line as of date, .273/.312/.450. You're adding in two prime hitting years of Keppinger at his career peak and comparing Cantu's major league stats at age 22-24. I agree with Mr. R. They aren't in the same ballpark, it isn't even close. Unless we're talking one of those celebrity softball ballparks inside of a real adult sized major league park. Then I guess they could be compared on the same field.

at 12/04/2007 9:55 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

Redlegs, that Mets offer really isn't all that strong. Gomez is a very good prospect but still not as good as Bruce, as Bruce is the #1 prospect in all of baseball.Heilman is 29 years old and has really never done anything all that great as his career record is 19-25. Humber is 25 years old and had a AAA ERA this year of 4.27, which also isn't that impressive.

at 12/04/2007 9:57 PM Amy said...

I'm betting everyone filed their stories earlier tonight--right, Trent??

at 12/04/2007 10:10 PM Mr. Redlegs said...

Clueless, have you seen the Norfolk park where the Mets' Class AAA team plays? It's a freaking barn. Around 410 to center and 385 up the alleys, so you get higher ERAs there.Still, 4.27 ain't that bad and the guy gets strikeouts and keeps hits down, too. Humber was also 24 this past season, not 25, and that's very well in range of a AA-AAA player who played college ball. He's jumped four classes in two seasons. But you're right about the package; I'm just not sure that Bedard brings more unless the Dodgers part with Kemp and Broxton. Then the Orioles would be really stupid not to take the deal. The Reds ain't giving up Bruce so everyone should really relax on that one. You read too much into Krivsky's words.

at 12/04/2007 10:22 PM djc said...

You can lobby two of the voters for the Frick Award at the email addresses below.Barry Horn (Dallas Morning News) - bhorn@dallasnews.com Larry Stewart (Los Angeles Times) - larry.stewart@latimes.com

at 12/04/2007 10:29 PM Sabo said...

Look at those trades I asked you about Mr R.Also, according to Jerry Crasnick, teh Reds won't be trading Josh Hamilton to the Cubs. Why? because they are NL central rivals. Here's why I wouldn't trade him. He hasn't proven he can stay healthy. That means he doesn't have too much value right now. Let him play next year and make sure you aren't getting 50 cents on the dollar for him because of his health concerns.

at 12/04/2007 10:35 PM Clueless Krivsky said...

Redlegs, if the Norfolk park is 410 to center and 385 in the alleys, which is larger than 90% of the major league parks, wouldn't that equate to a lower ERA rather than a higher ERA????And Humber will be 25 next year. I could care less how old he was last year. His numbers at AAA were average, especially if he's playing in large park, which is exactly what the dimensions you listed equates to. But it really doesn't matter. I read that Fay is reporting the Reds are serious about Bedard and could get him for Bailey, Votto, and a minor leaguer.

at 12/04/2007 11:01 PM Amy said...

Clueless, I think Fay was just speculating about what it might take to get Bedard. He did say he's talked to several people who said the Reds were serious about going after Bedard, but he didn't attribute our players' names to anyone.

at 12/04/2007 11:05 PM RedScoop said...

ESPN is reporting that Trent and Lancaster were seen together buying tickets to the Opryland "Salute to Dolly Parton" exhibit at 10:30pm EST.

at 12/04/2007 11:08 PM jdeezman said...

Mr. R,I live in Virginia Bech and go to the Tides games all the time... you're not kidding about the barn! Big field here, and a great place to catch a game. Now... back to the Reds... I have also heard the Bedard trade rumors... what do you think if it is true? Would Bailey, Votto, and Maloney? be too much to give up for him in your opinion? It would tell me that Mr. Castellini want's to win in 2008... and beyond. I've been reading this blog since this past summer... love all of the takes and the repartee that takes place. makes me homesick for Cincinnati, Skyline, Montgomery Inn... and day/night double headers!

at 12/04/2007 11:13 PM Gweedoh said...

Hey Trent,Don't know if you know about this guy, but John Sickles (who knows everything about everyone who ever played baseball- like the Mel Kiper Jr. of baseball) is set to post his review of the Reds farm system. Early projections are good: http://www.minorleagueball.com/ Hurrah for not Jim Bowden!